A Conversation with Jagdish Swaminathan
by Vinod Bharadwaj
| Jagdish Swaminathan is among India's foremost modern artists. He claims to work in the spirit of a man possessed. He is among those artists who are also able to express
themselves with ease in words. Holding a conversation with Swaminathan
is a revealing and intellectually stimulating experience. |
Vinod Bharadwaj: Tell me something about your creative process when and how do you like to work?
Jagdish Swaminathan: There was a time when I would work
till late into the night. But it's not easy to work with colours at
night, yellow in particular. Moreover, the time of work is related to a
painting arriving at a point where it would progress on its own.
Initially I liked to go for impasto with thick colours - I would use the
palette-knife quite a lot, which I no longer do. The application of colour has become quite 'fine'.
VB: What kind of inspiration do you need for painting?
JS: I can find solace even without having done
anything at all in the manner of speaking. The most difficult part is
starting on a work... But once I start then it is a different matter.
VB: What do you consider as central to your growth as an artist?
JS: I feel I am not one of those artists whose work is
totally free of any intellectual dimension. I am more concerned with
having an emotional perspective in relation to the intellect. Not that I
have an intellectual perspective on emotions. All that I am saying is
that intellectualism has a place for me in explaining things.
VB: Do you like to talk about your work or do you believe a work should speak for itself?
JS: I am yet to meet an artist who would not like to talk about his works. All of them claim they wouldn't say anything whereas other than that they talk little. To understand
a painting an explanatory comment is not necessary. The ideal situation
would be that you see a painting and receive from it what you can. But
artists are quite vocal about their art.
VB: What special elements do you notice in the contemporary art landscape?
JS: The contemporary art movements have thrown up quite
a few superficial points of view. The depth which the artists of the
Progressive Group possessed is no longer to be found... Some of the
Indian artists have undergone a transformation. For example before his
arrival in Europe Tyeb Mehta, in the manner of Progressive artists,
would use 'brush stroke' and palette-knife to create the core image. But
he gave up this practice on his return
to India and flat colour surfaces came to be seen in his works which
were completely devoid of any brush-stroke or palette-knife. I have this
feeling that he has distanced himself from the modern western tradition,
for which nearly all the Progressive Group artists had fallen...
Earlier, the entire burden was on managing the brush and the
palette-knife. Now there is freedom from this compulsion... It's not a
matter of Indian art or Western art. Had we continued to follow the
tradition, nothing would have been possible. Total rebellion alone has
brought about results. The truth does not lie in slogans, though here I
remember that famous artist Miro. Surrealist artists were moving ahead
shouting against the French state: 'Down with the government'. But Miro
had a different slogan: 'Down with the Mediterranean'. Because that's
where everyone had one's roots. Everything that predated it got erased.
VB: Taking into account the acute difference between
the Western and Indian art, many critics take you as a hardcore opponent
of the West. How do you react?
JS: There is nothing like West or East confronting
today's artist. But the influential tradition is the western tradition
and one has to have doubts about it. At least I do. Our artists are
emerging from a background crowded with a diversity of stories, opinions
and philosophical viewpoints. The basic question is whether one needs
to be aware of them or not. The philosophy that there's only the colour
and the canvas and nothing more is not right. Most of our philosophical
theories are based on Indo-Anglican interpretations. It is this
perspective which has given us faith in Ajanta, Mughal miniatures etc.
At a London exhibition of modern artists like Husain, Ramkumar, Gaitonde
and others, an 'intellectual' present there had introduced them stating
that they were the very modern artists of India promoting western
awareness in their country... In the West the tradition of the modern
man is a dying tradition. There, the modern art passed through the
self-oriented consciousness of Modigliani and moved towards what was
completely object-oriented... I count the Western civilisation as dying,
not the Western man. Many thinking souls out there are against their
own civilisation.
VB: What do you have to say about the fitful attempts
in India to make a 'superstar' out of a modern artist on the strength of
money and glamour?
JS: Most of the artists are quite shrewd. But this
opinion need not be extended to their art... When the economy in a
society is driven by market forces then every man has to put up a
constant fight... I am not suggesting that this is all right. There
must be artists out there who are beyond such material concerns but most
of them introduce themselves quite aggressively... But a majority of
them is alert to market forces. It would be a misguided belief to expect
that an artist could change the whole society within his lifetime. In
that case he should give up his work and devote himself solely to
bringing about social transformation. Other than the marketplace where
else does the artist have a dialogue with society? The easel and the
painting will remain an artist's personal property and not the people's
and that's the truth.
VB: Only a narrow class of viewers is interested in your art. Do you sometimes get depressed by this?
JS: The fewer the viewers the better. Two, four, ten...
I don't look out for too many of them. Even if one of them is able to
find what he may be looking for...
VB: Birds, mountains etc. are the familiar faces of
your work today. Do they signify repetitiousness? As an artist what is
your level of awareness about this tendency?
JS: In the last 18 years my art has passed through five
well-defined phases which is quite a lot. What happens is that when you
see a recognisable object, and notice it time and again, then you come
to 'feel' it's repetition. . Either you are doing less or doing more;
nothing is the same every time. The artists who continue to alter their
narrative or subject-objects, even in their case the colour scheme and
the range remain the same. On seeing one of my paintings you cannot say
with certainty that it's Swaminathan's line. I do not have a
particularly special way of drawing a bird. In my art the 'form' does
not originate with a point. That is there as if already in place. That's
why when Geeta Kapur compares me with Paul Klee, it's not the right
comparison. I regard Klee highly. But I never followed Klee's artistic
aims. In Klee's art and in the development of his line there's a rhythm,
whereas for me the line already exists.
VB: Among your early experiences what is it that you consider important in your development as an artist?
JS: In my childhood, while at school, I had only two
passions Hindi poetry and painting... In the final years of my school
and the early years of my college days I wrote a large number of songs.
VB: What is it in particular among your early days which you find significant?
JS: Difficult to say. I had very strong romantic
inclinations within me. I kept Jigar [Moradabadi] Saheb in high esteem. I
even set out to write his biography... My father was in the government
service. The life was at the level of a babu. I was quite attracted by
this contrast. Like a devotee totally given over to the worship of god,
he would completely immerse himself in the world of poesy.
VB: You tend to devote a lot of time to the Akademi. Don't you feel inconvenienced?
JS: I do feel a lot of inconvenience. But I take up
such assignments prompted by a sense of social responsibility. Sometimes
I feel defeated as well... But it's also in my nature to struggle so as
to have my say as well as my space. Many leading artists, who feel
disillusioned after long years of association with the Akademi, might
change their opinion if the circumstances again become favourable.
During the last Trienniale the late Rosenberg had said that this kind of
work was essential the struggle to get approval for a movement whereas
Morris Graves... was so scared on seeing the burgeoning crowds of
Calcutta that he was driven to return to America. But we are surviving
in this situation.
This interview was originally published in Ravivar (1979), in Hindi which was a newsweekly by Anandbazar Group
Jagdish Swaminathan is one of the most significant modern artists of
India. He has the skill to express himself easily in words. He was among
the co-founders of the Group 1890. Indian art received an all new
direction by him and he started working towards a new set of values
based on an indigenous identity. His mystical bent of mind is mirrored
in his paintings. The account below throws more light on the
achievements of Jagdish Swaminathan. 